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Is there a viable way to abstract out all the MCM bits from SAM mod?  Ive noticed over on LL people have taken to using SOS-lite for SSE but that sounds rather mehhh...  Anyhow im curious what anyones gotten up too on SE  >.>

There's this mod for SSE 'Unique Character' which gives a custom set of textures for the player,  http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3006 Could we use the SAM skin elements with schlong and such in that?  Im going to keep digging, i'll report back whatever I may find. :)

Edit:  Perhaps we could use the SOS lite method, and swap out the textures and such for the SAM ones.  That would probably work, no bells and whistles except the console commands, but the most important thing would be in place, ill probably test it out soon perhaps.

Edited by infiniteone

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For the most part, using only SAM meshes and textures in SE will work fine.  The current SAM release has an issue with argonian/kajhiit hands due to skin partitions, but it can probably be fixed with Nifskope.  Some extra steps will need to be done to get the genitals and animations working though.  I've been playing SE with SAM assets almost exclusively since release.

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On 1/18/2017 at 6:21 AM, Arenirn said:

I'm relatively sure that an SSE version of SAM is currently being developed

 

Well that's exciting news! :) 

Quote
On 1/18/2017 at 4:37 PM, KouLeifoh said:

For the most part, using only SAM meshes and textures in SE will work fine.  The current SAM release has an issue with argonian/kajhiit hands due to skin partitions, but it can probably be fixed with Nifskope.  Some extra steps will need to be done to get the genitals and animations working though.  I've been playing SE with SAM assets almost exclusively since release.

 

I've finally gotten the game rigged up for a good first play-through 182 mods and counting lol, but im still not pleased with characters.  I did a modified WICO setup, it seems to have improved the ladies (dont care) but the guys look a bit too... I dunno... basically nowhere near as enticing or realistic as SAM textures, lol

I am using the "updated for SE" Masculine Argonian and Masculine Khajiit texture packs which used to work with SOS back in the day, I wonder if they might fix the hands issue you mentioned with current SAM release?  When you say "current sam release" does that mean you've installed SAM and just remove the esps scripts and such?  Or did you install SOS light and swap in the SAM textures?

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Oh I see now, someone mentioned in another post there is a porting script for testing on the new SSE.... hmm, in that case im jealous! :P 

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1 hour ago, infiniteone said:

I am using the "updated for SE" Masculine Argonian and Masculine Khajiit texture packs which used to work with SOS back in the day, I wonder if they might fix the hands issue you mentioned with current SAM release?  When you say "current sam release" does that mean you've installed SAM and just remove the esps scripts and such?  Or did you install SOS light and swap in the SAM textures?

The hand mesh issue is specific to SAM since whoever was trying to fix it had exported the mesh with partition strips (info discussed here).  When I said "current sam release", I meant the version currently available for download.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but SOS light is essentially a stripped down SOS with meshes + textures only with the genitals attached to the body mesh by default (both slot 32).  SAM has the genital texture on its own.  Due to the way the skin shader works, the genital uses slot 52 and is handled via script.  For the time being, I'm just using SAM meshes + textures without the genitals.

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I cant view your link, no perms for that forum I guess, I have seen some info about partition strips related to other ports I was looking at tho so I sort of understand.  I may just use the human elf and orc sam textures and leave the argonian and khajiit to the SSE Masculine ones for now, they look awesome, no bits & pieces but still far nicer than vanilla.

Is it fine to do a simple attach on 32 like SOS did?  Looking at Vectors .psc files, they're very detailed in comment by the way, I can see how heavily it relies on skse lol, he's  stacked in a lot of functionality, pretty amazing really.  So yeah, all of that is a no go until maybe march skse64 release, hopefully the needed code bits are in the beta, and still basically the same as oldrim, it might be an easy upgrade.

:D 

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says over on SOS the light version still has giggling and inertia with also console commands for boner or flacid.  Im sure I saw somewhere how to easily swap out SAM mesh/textures into SOS, but ive not tried it yet myself.

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40 minutes ago, infiniteone said:

Is it fine to do a simple attach on 32 like SOS did?  Looking at Vectors .psc files, they're very detailed in comment by the way, I can see how heavily it relies on skse lol, he's  stacked in a lot of functionality, pretty amazing really.  So yeah, all of that is a no go until maybe march skse64 release, hopefully the needed code bits are in the beta, and still basically the same as oldrim, it might be an easy upgrade.

It's not that simple.  The skin shader requires/forces the same biped slots to share the same texture set.  For example, anything in slot 32 will use a single texture set (malebody_1.dds, malebody_1_msn.dds, etc) for skin.  SOS light most likely included the genital texture with the body texture.  SAM has them separate, probably for space constraints and/or flexibility.  SAM .esp adds the genital to the naked body as slot 52.  This results in the genital being always equipped (similar to tails of argonians/kajhiits).  SAM scripts will then show/hide the genital via alpha using NiOveride whenever you equip/unequip something.  This works fairly well, but for SE, a different approach is needed with the absence of SKSE64.  A script-free way would be to modify every armor record to use slot 52, forcing the genital to hide whenever armor is equipped.  Another way would be to add the genital texture to the body texture set and adjust the UV on the genital mesh.  There won't be space for the genital on the argonian/kajhiit body texture though.  Both ways are tedious to do.

 

45 minutes ago, infiniteone said:

says over on SOS the light version still has giggling and inertia with also console commands for boner or flacid.  Im sure I saw somewhere how to easily swap out SAM mesh/textures into SOS, but ive not tried it yet myself.

Full SOS still relies on SKSE.  As for SOS light, erection states are handled by animations.  Those can be easily converted to SE using the havok animation converter included with the CK for SE.  I've already done so for my SE setup with SAM assets.

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I looked at the SOS lite esp in SSEedit it has some bits in 'Armor Addon' that replaces the 'nam0 Male Skin Texture' with another provided in SOS, and also empties out the 'nam2 Male Skin Texture Swap List', maybe thats how they handled hiding the schlong added body when armor is on?

I found those SAM tex/mesh in SOS instructions I recalled over at LL http://www.loverslab.com/topic/51656-best-sos-compatible-male-textures/#entry1296462
She looses me at step #6 though, besides there's no HDT physics extensions mod for SSE yet, so that's not needed, unless i'm mistaken about what she means, which is a good chance.  lol

Looking at SOS malebody_ in nifskope I can see where they've added the genitals as a node to the malebody, it is almost all starting to make more sense to me, anyway lol, im a nut, at least im enjoying digging deeper and learning more, nifSkope is a cool app to learn.  I'll check out the the havok animation converter you mentioned, that sounds interesting.  I've been wanting to learn more in the CK and about modding skyrim for eons. :D

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SOS light esp isn't needed for SAM.  SOS textures swapped the genitals and feet.  Since the feet mesh already uses slot 37, its texture can be easily moved from the body texture set to its own texture set.  The .esp is specifically for that change.  Genital texture is on the body texture where the feet were, and both genital and body meshes use slot 32.

That link on LL is for full SOS.  SOS light doesn't have genital options.  If you remove the esp and scripts from the equation, it boils down to replacing the vanilla body mesh + textures.

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Yeah I figured she was talking about the full one for that little texture swap bit.  My look in the sos lite.esp was definitely the light one though, it gives you a fomod choice between the body build regular or heavy, and then to choose the two schlong types, and has that lite esp doing the nakedfeet bits.  I was just curious if thats how they managed to hide the schlong when an outfit is worn, or does that happen by some other means?  They have no scripts just the textures, meshes including auxbones and the sos lite esp.

I was just digging into SAM - Shape Atlas for Men.esp recently, wow, thats a lot of nice stuff, Factions, Armors, Spells Quests, Textures, scripts, quite a detailed undertaking.

Edited by infiniteone

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7 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Yeah I figured she was talking about the full one for that little texture swap bit.  My look in the sos lite.esp was definitely the light one though, it gives you a fomod choice between the body build regular or heavy, and then to choose the two schlong types, and has that lite esp doing the nakedfeet bits.  I was just curious if thats how they managed to hide the schlong when an outfit is worn, or does that happen by some other means?  They have no scripts just the textures, meshes including auxbones and the sos lite esp.

It's really simple.  Think of the biped slots as equipment slots.  The body parts defined in NakedTorso must always be shown unless a piece of equipment occupies the same slot.  Whenever a body armor is equipped (slot 32 by default), it will replace whatever was on that slot.  In this case, both body and genital meshes are now hidden since they both use slot 32.  In SAM's case, only the body mesh is hidden since the genital uses a different slot (slot 52).  You would need to have an equipment occupy that slot to force the genital to hide.

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Ahh thanks, that makes more sense now, I really wasn't aware how much nif's can do, looking through nifskope is helping with that, im sure after a couple months ill be at least more familiar with things as I keep reading, watching, & tinkering. :D  My curiosity with 'SOS Light' was thinking SAM could use the same simpler method and not need the scripting or other fidgeting to handle slots, Vectors goodies are part of SOS anyhow so there's some crossover.

I've got a bunch of cool ideas for mods I might make in the future so I think ill need to at minimum have a working knowledge of Nifskope, CK, and ultimately scripting too, looking at what SKSE can do in the mix is very enticing as well, but im sure is an even steeper learning curve, although should be a lot of good frustration & fun. lol

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yay, I got it to work :D  just a basic setup using sams stuff and hiding all the unused sam scripts and esms, I also updated all the .hkx files to SSE with a handy bat, now to tinker some more

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Do we have to update the SAM nifs  for SSE?  Iv'e notice his skin shadows are a bit strange, but that could just be the new engine, and not having SSS or ENB stuffs.  I had to use SSE NIF Optimizer on Vectors Schlong Power Stones to get them working in SSE, is that not needed with SAM as well?  I noticed nif optimizer had a separate function for Head nifs too, so it appears at least some skins need this to be ported to SSE.

Edited by infiniteone

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Definately use the SSE Nif Optimizer to fix the partition strips on the argonian/kajhiit hands.  The rest is up to you since SE supports Oldrim nif's for the most part.  Mine are still in Oldrim's format.  Converting head parts can be a hit or miss since the ones I've tried didn't work.  Shadows were completely changed and looks much better than Oldrim.  The only real issue is the actor self-shadowing and SSAO to an extent.  To fix it a bit, I added the following settings in Skyrim.ini:

[Display]
fShadowDirectionalBiasScale=0.4700
fSAOIntensity=9.0000
fSAORadius=225.0000

 

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Nice thanks for the tips, absolutely agree SSE shadows are a whole lot better, except character, and I am using full SSAO because ENB is just not stable for me yet, too un-optomized whilst they do all their magick adding things and tweaking, I loose 10-20 fps out of the gate, with no effects turned on lol.  I'll definitely tweak those vanilla shadow settings right away and test.  Thanks! :)

I just tried with and without update all the nifs, seems better before since one of the guys boobs appeared a tad smaller than the other afterwards.  Maybe I was mistaken tho, I'll test again since I made a separate version of the mod for it, Ill be at least certain to do the argonian/kajhiit hands tho, no doubt SAM is the absolute best skins by far, its so worth it to tinker, plus im learning a ton.

The odd thing I was just messing with was trying to swap the _1 & _2 dds skin files to get the 'Light Hair' as the default, but something is forcing the smooth, seems odd because in nifskope it shows the _1 names, not _2 which is the smooth now.  Basically I just renamed the _2 files to _1, and the switch to _2 for the other few _1 files that matched.  I thought maybe there was some texture cache, even rebooted the system, tried starting a new game and all.  Looks like this bit will be another good lesson once I overcome it. hahaa

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I did the argonian hands nifs, there were six, but I didnt notice any kajhiit hands, maybe its using vanilla nifs.  I noticed the argonians with the splits in their wrists in game before, but not on the kajhiit, though I wasnt looking too hard,  perhaps its only the argonians with the issue?

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ok im starting to understand nifskope more lol, several things... firstly I needed to run it through MO, and autodetect directories and archives in nifskope in to actually see the textures properly on the mesh.  My other skin issue 'trying to use light hair version', embarrassingly, it was a copy of body skin dds files in the SAMbetterfeet mod :/ ooops, good mistake though since I played a lot more in nifskope.  I also had to fix the uv for the underwear, for some odd reason it was blown out all kray. 

Anyways im a happy camper, now its time to get those schlongs in place lol, perhaps I should go the route that SOS did and attach to the body mesh.  I noticed when I enable the SAM esp it does do the attachment, and the animations work too, but it shows through clothing of course, being its implemented with scripts in mind.  Ill give a few whirls of attaching it to the body just for fun, that should be good and complicated for a newb like me.

PS, the shadow fix did help a lot, I lowered the bias a little since it was peter-paning a bit tho, cheers!

Edit: game still needs tweaks on shadows & color for my taste but its looking good.  Here is latest before getting schlong going.

 

20170129065019_1.jpg

Edited by infiniteone
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SE has this weird yellow/green tint that is probably caused by how godrays were implemented.  I initially used Reshade for color correction and it had very minimal fps loss of 2-5fps.  After getting a better gpu, I switched to ENB while maintaining 60 fps.  Directx 11 is more efficient than directx 9, but if I remember correctly, it creates even more calls which ENB has to capture, causing a higher overhead out of the gate.

Argonians and Kajhiits share the same hand mesh.  They have the same issue (texture slit on wrist) as the human hand mesh in the current SAM release.  The quickest fix for this is to grab the correct meshes from SAM's NIF libraries, but I don't see them uploaded here yet.  The other way is to use the hand mesh fix I posted in the other thread and copy its NiTriShape over.  The .tri file would need to be rebuilt, but since you're on SE, it's not needed.

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Oh I see, ive not tested with godrays off, I sort of like them, but not if they're responsible for the color oddities, hmm I wonder if they're tied to the strange adaptation that happens when stepping into shadows outside, that volumetric lighting effect, its a bit odd.  I have tried out the reshade stuff, I love its DOF no real performance hit for me, but being all post processing it does some odd things when bringing up menus, and if using martys MXAO it shows through fog, marty ported his effects to ENB though, which fixed all that nicely, and ran great too, except that enb -10-20fps I really want to keep most of.   Im sure ill revisit ENB again tho, its simply too good to avoid.

My specs 980ti 6gb hybrid, amd 9370 8core 4.7ghz, 32gb ram, OS & game drives are SSD, Win10pro.  Basically I modded a lot lol... all my favs and ultra game settings mostly 2k textures with select few bigger ones, did the whole 1k hd lods, and trees lods SSElodGen goodness too, which didn't effect performance at all for a huge visual improvement.  Im only running 1920x1080 and still great frame rates too, without ENB.  Should improve soon tho, im upgrading to the AMD 8core Ryzen chip and board when they launch, excited for that, and then a vega graphics card later, totally not touching 4k monitors until after that haahaa!

I am using your hands fix you uploaded which work great, ive recently done the argonian hands too but haven't checked them out in game yet.   This is truly a lot of fun, im glad Vector hasnt released an SSE version yet, its a good excuse to get into this area and learn more, been slowly getting more into 3d design over the years, whenever I have time to tinker.  I know blender fairly ok'ish, forever learning tho.

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oh I see why they did the feet thing in SOS esp, the removed feet from bodytex so they could add the schlong instead in that space, hmmm... I might go the patch all armor route and keep 52 slot setup.

I figured out my underwear uv issue,  another texture override, this time from Rustic clothing, so many newb holes to learn my way out of lol, ive finally discovered the usefulness of the data folder view on the right side of MO2.  xD

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dang... thats a lot of armor, a fuck ton with all my addon mods so scratch that lol.  I suppose it could be done with a custom sseedit script, but im not learned enough in that arena just yet.

So its settled, im going use the SOS feet method to free up the space in the body tex, after tinkering I see it should work with all races too. Seems like a lot less work overall, and cleaner to get rid of once SAMSSE hits, bonus is I learn more nifskope.  I'll also combine your hands fix and improve the feet.  Maybe we could eventually upload something similar here in Downloads section if Vector permits?  SAM-Light for SSE

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