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Vector

SAM, Hall of Torque and change in EULA

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Because LadyMoiraine has violated the EULA, I'm changing it as of today, and Hall of Torque will no longer have publishing rights to any of my work and/or any derivative from it. From now on, any SAM mod that edits anything based from SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, will have to be hosted here, and nowhere else. SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, will just have the generic EULA I'm using for all my other mods.

The EULA was very clear, this granted her the rights of publishing:

Quote

VectorPlexus and LadyMoiraine reserves the right to modify, suspend or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the availability of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, with or without notice and without liability to you.

and this is where it stated that only me can give permissions to edit any of my work:

Quote

In case you wish to modify any part of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, you will require written approval from VectorPlexus. Any request should be submitted via e-mail to [email protected] Any modification or any product created with it, like screengrabs or gameplay videos, will be subject and inherit the same EULA has SAM - Shape Atlas for Men.

Because she was granting people permissions to edit/modify my work, I'm revoking her any permissions to hosting SAM mods that in some way or another, are using content created by me.

One of the reasons I implemented an EULA, was to help to prevent any issue, and any misunderstanding about rights and permissions. I have done it, while also consulting her in the proccess, so there is no excuse for this blatant violation and disrespect over someone else's work. Here's the e-mail exchange I had with her, regarding the EULA, please note that I asked her for feedback, and when I sent her the final version, I mentioned what was changed (mainly relevant for permissions). There is really no excuse for her actions, and I'm done with all of this.

EULAMailExchange01.jpg

EULAMailExchange02.jpg

EDIT: I "censored" the e-mail parts that contained only personal and/or private matters, in which my health is also discussed, they do not relate in anyway to something I have said regarding granting her rights to give permissions.

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I understand your decision but however I have some questions.

SAM will be available on your website ? (to date it is not available) If yes, what version you are going to propose? (The latest version release by you, was not very stable, Belisario to participate in the development of SAM-RECODED which allowed to use the version of RaceMenu 3.4.5 and optimize your mod)

What is your opinion on armors create for your mod?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Etan.

Edited by Etan

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21 minutes ago, Etan said:

I understand your decision but however I have some questions.

SAM will be available on my website ? (to date it is not available) If yes, what version you are going to propose? (The latest version release by you, was not very stable, Belisario to participate in the development of SAM-RECODED which allowed to use the version of RaceMenu 3.4.5 and optimize your mod)

What is your opinion on armors create for your mod?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Etan.

I've simply uploaded the version edited by B3lisario. I have yet to look at it and determine what changes were made. I'm not at all against his changes, specially because they were made while I was absent. In fact, I initially invited B3lisario to collaborate on SAM, but he never got to do it. I wonder why he only did it after I was gone to be honest, I never did anything to him, and I trusted SOS on his hands, and even took the effort to make female SOS assets by his request, so I guess he just didnt got any interest at it at the time.

I can't really offer you a 100% answer or armors, because I believe I've seen armors that dont use the SAM body at all (which I'm assuming they are setup by using other Armor Slots). In that case, they are not using any direct work from me, so its fine, you can do whatever. But in case your mod uses parts of SAM body, then it becomes derivative work, which means that you'll have to keep it on my site.

EDIT: one more thing... although the EULA was changed today (and I also informed LadyMoiraine about it), as the document makes explicit, it will only come into effect in 30 days.

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Thank you for your quick response.
I speak armor as many were available on LadyM, but now they are no longer.

The vanilla version of SAM recoded have a persistent bug with Racemenu 3.4.5 (NIO) and it was fixed with body modification SAM HDT BBB (Problems: invisible hands, textures problems ...). But that body modification is not available in your mod.

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well, I wont be uploading work that is not mine, for obvious reasons... I would be an hypocrite if I did so. So all I can say/ask, is that each author uploads their own work/mods on their own. 

PS-Please do not upload other ppls work anywhere... I hate when ppl do that, even when its for a "good cause" and you're only doing it with the best of intentions. However, its disrespectful, and you must give a chance for authors to do so if they wish. Lets say that for some reason the author doesn't want to publish it on my site, for whatever reasons (I'm pretty sure I've been making a lot of enemies lately, because I'm just fighting for my own copyrights, which is my legal right). Its not up to me or anyone to decide to do so. I defend other ppls work as I do my own, and I hope that ppl here respect that.

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I told you this because I think people who want to use your mod will encounter this problem.

Also a new version of sam take time to be develop (SKSE remastered for skyrim is not still in development, neither NIO)

Thank you for your answers ;)

Etan.

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I'm aware of your concerns, and I fully understand you. It was never my intention to prevent ppl from getting my mods, or doing their own mods over mine (and as long as ppl ask for permission). When I went off, about 2 years ago, I was so fed up and so distressed, I asked for a ban on Nexus... I wanted to be left alone, and I wanted peace and solitude.

However, before I did that, I uploaded all the mods I had on Nexus (BAM, Mighty Beasts) to Hall of Torque, plus some minor ones I never really bothered uploading them anywhere (like the spriggans/flame atronach). I even took the ultimate effort of finishing the Schlong Stones so I could upload it, even though while I was finishing it, all I wanted at the time was to pretty much disappear.

I hope ppl understand that I never had any intentions to do any of this, and while LadyMoiraine by herself cannot be blamed of what triggered me to leave about 2 years, she is largely responsible for me not returning to Hall of Torque. She knows this, she knows the why, and yet, she prefers to not have me there. I gave her a last chance, by establishing rules on a document, the EULA, and even then, she violated it...

I sincerely hope people can understand my point of view

Vector

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A bit disappointed because some mods for SAM have disappeared and will certainly not return. And since you don't have any interest with SAM for the skyrim normal version, it's like a dead mod now it seems? At least, these guys doing modifications with SAM made it alive...

I've made myself a patch test for enderal about missing body part from some races but this can't work without SAM modifications by others.

Oh and, your SAM upload is missing textures btw.

Edited by Khlas

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5 hours ago, Khlas said:

A bit disappointed because some mods for SAM have disappeared and will certainly not return. And since you don't have any interest with SAM for the skyrim normal version, it's like a dead mod now it seems? At least, these guys doing modifications with SAM made it alive...

I've made myself a patch test for enderal about missing body part from some races but this can't work without SAM modifications by others.

Oh and, your SAM upload is missing textures btw.

I never said that I wont be considering the normal version of Skyrim, the only thing I recall saying is that I want to see if I can implement new features with the SSE version, which are impossible with the normal one, because I have tried... not sure where you read that, could you please provide a link?

The texture file was already uploaded.

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12 minutes ago, Vector said:

I never said that I wont be considering the normal version of Skyrim, the only thing I recall saying is that I want to see if I can implement new features with the SSE version, which are impossible with the normal one, because I have tried... not sure where you read that, could you please provide a link?

The texture file was already uploaded.

 

Edited by Khlas

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4 minutes ago, Khlas said:

 

I was talking about the timeline, which I have several times mentioned on several posts, I'm waiting for SSE to be released so I can get back to modding Skyrim/SAM. This goes back to June.

The mod should work still for any version, but again, only a few features will be available for SSE, if it allows what I want. I never said I wont be doing just for one version or the other, as I also always considered SAM compatibility to any Skyrim/DLCs. I'm sure there will be a way, maybe through SKSE, to determine if the game engine or whatever is A or B (thats pretty much how DLCs are checked, and thats why some features on SAM only work/show if you have the DLCs), and I bet a similar check would be possible once SSE comes out.

I'm neither comitting in saying I'm doing it or not with Vanilla compatibility in mind. Yes, SSE is my main aim, because I want to include new features that are impossible in the vanilla version of the game (I tried when I was still developing for SAM). These features will require new textures and new scripting, so depending on the effort that it would take to maintain 2 versions, I can do it or not.

Also, its my work, and I have full control over it, if you're not happy, just leave, thank you!

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10 minutes ago, Vector said:

 

Also, its my work, and I have full control over it, if you're not happy, just leave, thank you!

Hmm well, I don't think I was rude or anything. I don't think I deserve these kind of words. I have the right to be disappointed or this forum is like a dictatorship or something? :o

I'm here because I support your work, and seeing good stuff disappear make me sad.

Thanks for the explanation though. 

Edited by Khlas
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Considering that:

  • You have provided a quote out of context, without saying anything else
  • And that I'm currently being attack by a mob of ppl on HoT
  • kinda fed up that everyone is so "disappointed"
  • how others are keeping the mod alive, as if I had no intentions to do so myself

If you were not attacking me then I apologize (although you made a great job at making it look you were), but I'm kinda tired of being judged and blamed by my actions, specially because my work is my own and I can do whatever the hell I want. I legally have that right, in case ppl want to keep banging on that same door. I couldnt care less if you are disappointed or if you think I'm a dictator... this is not a government... this is my personal website where I choose to share my work, and I do and say whatever I want, I owe no one any justification, and people have to follow my rules.

If you have the rights of being disappointed, surely I can have the right of being fedup, right? I don't even understand your dictatorship analogy, its out of context, I have not banned you or muted you or anything. And even if I had, again, its a personal site. But again, it seems that you are blaming me for not catering to your specific needs, while I dont have obligation to you or anyone... how about instead of disappointment, you say instead "gee... thank you Vector, for spending countless hours on developing unique mods that otherwise probably no one would do" or "gee... thank you for spending so much time on modding that you barely have any time to play" or "gee... thanks for taking 2 months to figure out how to create the SOS system alone that makes it compatible with anything and doesnt require FNIS"

Dont you think that instead of showing your disappointment... a simple "thank you" would be good? have you even ever thanked me? thats all I need... but instead, you prefer to thank the other guys that are keeping the mod alive. So, thank you indeed for your awesome and positive disappointment!

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1 hour ago, Vector said:

Considering that:

  • You have provided a quote out of context, without saying anything else
  • And that I'm currently being attack by a mob of ppl on HoT
  • kinda fed up that everyone is so "disappointed"
  • how others are keeping the mod alive, as if I had no intentions to do so myself

If you were not attacking me then I apologize (although you made a great job at making it look you were), but I'm kinda tired of being judged and blamed by my actions, specially because my work is my own and I can do whatever the hell I want. I legally have that right, in case ppl want to keep banging on that same door. I couldnt care less if you are disappointed or if you think I'm a dictator... this is not a government... this is my personal website where I choose to share my work, and I do and say whatever I want, I owe no one any justification, and people have to follow my rules.

If you have the rights of being disappointed, surely I can have the right of being fedup, right? I don't even understand your dictatorship analogy, its out of context, I have not banned you or muted you or anything. And even if I had, again, its a personal site. But again, it seems that you are blaming me for not catering to your specific needs, while I dont have obligation to you or anyone... how about instead of disappointment, you say instead "gee... thank you Vector, for spending countless hours on developing unique mods that otherwise probably no one would do" or "gee... thank you for spending so much time on modding that you barely have any time to play" or "gee... thanks for taking 2 months to figure out how to create the SOS system alone that makes it compatible with anything and doesnt require FNIS"

Dont you think that instead of showing your disappointment... a simple "thank you" would be good? have you even ever thanked me? thats all I need... but instead, you prefer to thank the other guys that are keeping the mod alive. So, thank you indeed for your awesome and positive disappointment!

I already gives my thanks to you a plenty of time under others names I want to keep secret for some reasons. But I can even say it again : Thank you.

I'm sure saying thank you in my initial post would be probably off-topic. I mean, it's about Hall of Torque and SAM, and I don't really agree with the action you made. But it's fine, as you stated, you do what you want, and I accept your decision. However, the disappointment seems normal to me. Being happy because some cool mods were removed is insincere. This has nothing to be with you, it's just a feeling, not a hate or anything. 

Anyways, I hope it's the right thing and some guys will be interested, making some mods for SAM, even without ladymoiraine. But the creator is back to it, it's a good thing.

 

Btw, I have my compatible patch for SAM with Enderal and I want to share it with others. I just need to know if it's safe to share it in your forum? I changed the file named SAM - Shape Atlas for Men.esp (it was really easy to do, despite the fact some people said it's impossible).

Edited by Khlas

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Vector,  I really am sorry to hear about this.  I hope things are treating you well dear.  Are you planning on improving SAM or just updating SAM as it is?  I'm just curious.

 

 I wanted to say how much of a fan I am of your work.  I still have your mod before it was taken down from the LadyM website.  I wanted to personally say thank you for your mod.  I really appreciate the effort you have put into this amazing body mod. :D:x

 

nappilydeestruction a.k.a. Dee

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I've always loved your work, but I'm sorry, this isn't good form. I know you put a lot of effort into it, trust me, I can understand as well as any that so much effort would make you defensive of your work. At the same time though, you did also just crush the cult fanbase that SAM managed to hold. Aside from a select group of people, SAM managed to fall under the radar. Regardless of lacking effort, people still tried to keep the mod afloat. Keep in mind, aside from just now, there was no indicator that you wanted to continue at all for a few years now. It's not entirely fair to those who also put forth a lot of effort to further keep SAM alive.

Look, I do understand your position on this, but at the same time I think it could have been handled much better. I do apologize for such a cold stance, but I feel quite strongly about this.

Edited by RocketLombax
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@Khlas

I get it... you are disappointed, and I'm sure you're not the only one... but how do you think I feel right now, when I know I have ppl lashing out on me on HoT (and to be honest I dont even dare to go look, as I dont want to get any more annoyed and I dont want to further escalate the problem). You are free to disagree about my actions, but I'm doing it to protect my work and interests, not yours, not LadyMoiraine's, not anyone else.

Do you by any chance think that I abandoned SAM or HoT because I didnt felt like doing it anymore? It was a really hard decision to make, and not entirely by choice. I did it, because I felt threatened there. And LadyM knows the reasons very well, and she was more interested in not solving the issue, than to rather have me there. Do you know how hard it feels for me, not being able to work on my own work? to not be able to further develop SAM, which is something that I loved doing? I wonder how would you feel, if someone who threatens you and your health, would be everyday by the doorstep of your house or your job. I can't return to HoT, I won't, and I'm not giving up this time on my own work, not anymore, and specially when I have legally every right to do so.

In June, I gave LadyMoiraine her last chance to make things work, the rules were clearly established, its not my fault that she breached the EULA. Its not like I mind controlled her to do so... She should have been wiser, and in case she had any doubt she should have asked. You dont shoot first and ask later, specially when there's a written document. If you dont agree with the EULA, again, dont use the mod. I'm not forcing you or anyone to do it. But if you do, you are bound to it, either you like it or not, and either you like it or not, copyrights are protected under law and under the Berne Convention/Treaty. If you dont agree, you are also disagreeing on this, and that no copyrights should exist and authors should not have any rights over their works. Its appalling to see someone thinking this way, and if you do, again, I urge you to leave, as I have no intentions of ever disrespecting any authors works, specially when they are provided for free... Free does not mean you can do whatever you want. Free means that someone is willing to share stuff for free, not handing you the rights to do whatever you want.

Also, LadyMoiraine already knew this was happening for about a week now, as I asked Felio to rely my intentions to her in advance before I would send any e-mail to her, so she could have time to be angry, to vent, and to chill about it. Felio also informed me that he would also help her to determine what was ok to stay on HoT, and what was copyrighted work and/or derivative. Felio's own mod, is an excellent example of a mod that could very well stay on HoT as I have no copyrights over it, so I would never take action against it. This was also expressed to LadyM via mail by me, back in January. As far as Felio told me, LadyM told him that she didnt wanted for the SAM forum to be gone. Today, at 16h42 GMT I sent her the e-mail informing her about the EULA violation, about what were her rights, and that I, was the only one that could give permissions to allow edits or mods that were done over my work, as anyone can read the EULA, and revoking her her rights of publishing. I also told her that the EULA changes were to come into effect in 30 days from today, which is the period already established in the EULA for any changes to the document. In no way did I asked her to remove either everything or did I asked her to remove it today, she has 30 days to do so.

If you are disappointed, go over at HoT, and express your disappointment to LadyMoiraine, not me... she was the one, that failed to follow the agreement, not me, and again, I gave her the chance to discuss the EULA, as you can read on the e-mails I posted. Its really mind blowing seeing ppl blaming me for a mistake I did not made.

Its also worthy to mention that when I decided to leave about 2 years ago, before I requested my ban on Nexus, I did uploaded both Mighty Beasts and Brute Argonian Male to Hall of Torque, so people could still have access to them. Not only that, I also uploaded those minor mods for spriggans/flame atronach, and even while being super depressed I set myself to finish the Schlong Stones mod which I was working at the time to take a small break from SAM. Really good times! Working on a mod to publish it before I abandoned everything, while kicking myself out because I was feeling like crap and like shit, being sucked into the black hole of depression... talk about being selfish uh? working on a mod while crying at the same time! Woohoo!!!

Anyway... I'm disappointed at all this, as much as you are, for different reasons ofc. And I'm sorry if you think I'm being selfish, or whatever, and if you feel that I'm a dictator, I really couldnt care less... you ppl have really no idea how much time and effort I spent on SOS or SAM, or any other mod I work on... I'm very persistent, and sometimes I would spend week after week with a 3 hour sleep each night, and I would barely do anything else but trying to understand how to do several thingsthe things I wanted to, which btw, no one else ever did... sometimes I would be on the verge of giving up. And I do it, because I like it... And... I dont mind sharing what I do. But I really couldnt care less if I share with everyone or not. Before setting up my site back in June, I shared both my D:OS and XCOM 2 mod privately with friends who I trusted. I dont mind going back to that really, and I would still keep up my site, exclusively for my Patrons, but if at some point I feel the need to block the access to my site to the general public, dont doubt for a second that I wont do it. I've already put the community before my interests 2 years ago when I left... and from now on, I'll just start being selfish, and defend my interests only.

After this all ordeal, I'm not even sure if I'm going to keep my game raffle anymore... so don't expect I'll do one in December during the next Steam Sale... or even expect that I'll keep giving ppl free access to my site and work. I wont be here on my own site being judged by ppl I dont know from anywhere. Its not a dictatorship, its simply my home, you come in, I'm your host, and you're my guest, you must follow my rules, its pretty simple.

Anyway... about your mod... it might be a bit pointless to share anything for now, specially if it relates to ESPs or Scripts, as I'm bound to be working on them pretty soon, but you are free to do so, maybe tomorrow when I'm feeling a bit better and can start giving ppl's author membership so you can upload whatever you want... Also feeling really tired and exausted about all this discussion, right now I cant even decide basic needs like getting a coffee or try to go to sleep...

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1 hour ago, nappilydeestruction said:

Vector,  I really am sorry to hear about this.  I hope things are treating you well dear.  Are you planning on improving SAM or just updating SAM as it is?  I'm just curious.

 

 I wanted to say how much of a fan I am of your work.  I still have your mod before it was taken down from the LadyM website.  I wanted to personally say thank you for your mod.  I really appreciate the effort you have put into this amazing body mod. :D:x

 

nappilydeestruction a.k.a. Dee

I'm planning on doing any neccessary updates and maybe adding new features, that may only be possible with the Special Edition. Some other features that I have abandoned, probably will also try to implement, as they are feasible on the vanilla version of the game, like tintable body hair to match hair colour.

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23 minutes ago, Vector said:

Anyway... about your mod... it might be a bit pointless to share anything for now, specially if it relates to ESPs or Scripts, as I'm bound to be working on them pretty soon, but you are free to do so, maybe tomorrow when I'm feeling a bit better and can start giving ppl's author membership so you can upload whatever you want... Also feeling really tired and exausted about all this discussion, right now I cant even decide basic needs like getting a coffee or try to go to sleep...

Thanks. I think I can update it anyway if you change the files. I made the hard part so it can be done in 5 minutes now.

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I'm sorry.  Look, I DO understand the work involved. Considering you and I discussed it, I can relate to the things you've been going through too. I myself am in a particularly low point in my life. If there's one thing I do understand, and I find it a little offensive you assume that I simply don't, is what it's like to continue trying to pour time and effort into something I have passion for, regardless of how defeated and unmotivated I may be due to life and the struggles it presents. And for you no doubt, you were probably feeling the pressures of trying to appease people with the mod and add more to finish it under that stress. I get that. Stress and depression makes it nearly impossible to work on even the things you want to work on. I never finished one of my biggest mods due to those pressures...

I do apologize. It's not like you deserve all the blame for everything because I understand there were some internal issues at HoT. But I didn't know before, and neither did all the people that put a lot of work into mods for SAM over there. By all means, you do quality work, and it shows you've got passion for it. I do think you're right in choosing to host SAM's source mod here and have any future mods be restricted to here. But the problem I have is that you've taken away the existing mods people had uploaded, many of which also had a lot of time and effort put into them. For that part, it's not fair to those who worked on them since they had no idea they were doing anything wrong. If you were to leave the existing mods up and disallow any future mods on HoT, that would've been so much more understandable, but a lot of effort has been thrown away now. Heck, even if you were to have them relocated to here, it'd be better, but a lot of people have been burned by this. Also, had it not been for THIS particular forum post here today, I would've never known SAM had to have a EULA in the first place... I don't think most others really knew either.

Again, I'm sorry for causing more stress. I may not agree with your decision, but it is your mod, and your choice how to handle it. Regardless of how it goes, I wish you the best still.

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I get where he's coming from as a modder.  And I feel also bad for those who have worked on the SAM related mods as well.   Yes is it a bit upsetting what happened but at the same time did LadyM even read the EULA correctly.  Why didn't she just post the EULA(the exact words that vector said on the email)  on the SAM official page on the LadyM site.  I didn't even see the EuLA at all.  Did she not feel the need to do so.  I thought that was what you are suppose to do.  I just think that it is absolutely strange that she didn't do that.  Usually when you release a mod related to another person's mod you at least put the either Terms of Use or some EULA statement.

@RocketLombax I thought he did let her leave the existing SAM related mods for 30 days on the email.  I guess she decided not to do so but just leave the SAM support thread forum.   But why didn't just do that though?  I get that shes upset but at the same time why not read it again before doing this.  She even said that she didn't read the whole thing.  That alone doesn't make sense.  She couldn't just left it up there like he said for 30 days from yesterday.

 

I was about to use SAM Unofficial mod that I download a week ago.  I wished that I had the actually readme and the instructions on how to use the mod.  I'll try to figure it out on my own.  I wanted to incorporate that mod to Bodytypes of Skyrim, made by Kalambre for my own personal use then maybe one day ask Vector to release it.

Edited by nappilydeestruction
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@RocketLombax Vector told LadyM to post the EULA and it was her responsibility to let users of her site know about it and understand it. Vector also sent her an email yesterday with the changes to the EULA that stated that the only things that would not be allowed to be on any other site except this site is anything that contained assets that he worked on, be that code, the body mesh, or ESP. There was even a good friend of Vector's that was going to help her determine what could stay on her site and what couldn't. So LadyM was the one that decided to remove everyone's content that had anything to do with SAM and she is also the one that decided to remove it all with absolutely no notice to the users of her forums. That is not Vectors doing. His intent was to host his mod over here and anybody would be able to make addons to it or anything they want to be a part of SAM and they can have it hosted where ever they want as long as it doesn't contain any assets that he worked on. This is a bad response on LadyM's part. She is the one that is tearing down all the content made by other modders.

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@RocketLombax

7 hours ago, RocketLombax said:

I find it a little offensive you assume that I simply don't, is what it's like to continue trying to pour time and effort into something I have passion for

I'm genuinely clueless about what is it you're talking about... In case you are telling me you are one of the ppl lashing out on me over at HoT, I wouldn't have any idea, because I haven't checked it for myself, just had different ppl telling me whats going on there and that I'm not getting any love there... I haven't read anything there, so I have no idea who is whinning or not about it. So if its not that... still clueless

  • If you were not aware about the EULA, complain to LadyMoiraine, as you can see by the e-mail I trusted it to her, and it was her obligation as a publisher to publish it. Dont use that as an excuse, specially not to me, it was her responsability, since she was hosting SAM. If you're telling me that she never posted the EULA, it only makes it worst (I wasn't controlling it, I just trusted she would do so).
  • Maybe you missed it but like I said, it was never my intention to strip everything out of HoT, and LadyM asked Felio (he was kinda acting as a diplomat between both of us) for helping to determine what could stay or not, and I said to Felio I was fine with that, and that I would trust his expertise. I only asked for copyrighted work and any derivative to be removed. Again, her decision.
  • I have taken nothing away, LadyM still had 30 days before having to remove anything, it was her decision to do so, I simply sent her an e-mail making my decision official yesterday, but she was already aware of it for about a week ago. The fact that she did it after receiving my e-mail yesterday (roughly 4 hours after I sent it), even though she told something different to Felio, just shows that she did this out of spite.
  • I considered trying to contact other authors before all this unfolded, but that would be disrespectful for LadyM, and I'm sure she would have accused me of collusion, and that I want to destroy her site, as she already did in the past. I wish there would be a peaceful solution to this, I tried my best to minimize her impulsiveness, and from taking it as a personal attack. Its simply me taking care of my interests, since she has been unwilling to do so over and over again. FYI, I'm aware of the violation for almost a month now, I have thought a great deal about it and how should I have proceeded.
  • I am not in anyway minimizing other ppl's work, nor I ever did. I want them hosted here, not anywhere else, under my full control. And don't lecture me about not helping other modders or going against the "community"... There were even mods, that while they were pretty much made by me (lxlhunter's Argonian tail mod and Aoki's SOS Revealing Armors are such examples) I encouraged them to publish as their own. In fact, I always encouraged ppl to publish all their work on their own, regardless of how much I had helped them or not. Why do you think I did and released Brute Argonian Male? I have really no interest in it, I did it because lxlhunter really wanted it. What about me doing Samuel shape? You know very well that I have no preference over that body type, I did it because ppl kept asking me for it. What about me explaining in full detail to Hymnaru how to create armors for SAM? Obviously all this shows my total disregard to other modders and the community, and the unwillingness for me to help and promote other authors work </sarcam>
  • You dont have to agree or disagree... Its my work, I will protect it as I see fit. I'm not sharing for fame and glory, I'm sharing because I like to mod and in the proccess I can share it, but I won't be putting my welfare in second plan anymore, and I will do anything I can to protect my interests within legal boundaries. Also, since when do I have any obligation to share anything? Oh right... I don't...

I'm also going to call the attention to this very important issue, that maybe ppl are disregarding... You may very well disagree with my decisions, but you may not disagree with the EULA itself or any of its rules:

Quote

By installing or using this software, you are agreeing to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

So its very simple, if you don't agree with the EULA, simply don't use SAM or any other of my work. I'm sure there are other alternatives. I have open hand about SOS, just ask that if ppl are using any assets give me, Smurf and B3lisario credit for it. I'm also sure there are other alternatives, I'm not forcing you or anyone to use SAM, you do it if you want, but if you do, you must agree with the EULA. All I want is inner peace, and let me do my damn mods, and share them if I want, and when I want. And for authors that want to do SAM mods, they are more than welcome, but bear in mind, you still need to ask for permissions, simply because I want to avoid any unwanted issues.

PS-I know I sound upset... and thats because I am. But I'm not upset with anyone specifically... I'm upset because ppl are simply complaining about something that it is my legal right. If you have a problem with copyright laws, then you have a problem with the world, since all countries in the world AFAIK recognise the Berne Convention and Treaty, and on both the US and in Europe at least, there are strong laws that defend copyrights.

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@lxlhunter & @Vector ok I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was weird that she didn't post the EULA agreement on the SAM page.  I'm not try to start anything but seriously.  This is ridiculous on her part.  It makes me suspicious of her actions.  You just don't post someone's work without their EULA or Terms of Use.  It's should never be aloud to not do so in anyway.  I look at the responses yesterday when I heard the news about SAM and related to SAM mods and thought ok lemme see what Vector had to say.  Then when I came to this thread specifically I read why you(Vector) made that decision, which also made me suspicious of what she did.  Yes I read the emails, including her response.  I don't know, it really sad that she violated the EULA and its hard for all of us.  But I hope we all can look at this and continue to support your mod Vector.  I am planning in the future to make some mods for SAM and releasing them in this site from now on.

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Okay, now I really must apologize. Prior to a few hours ago, it wasn't clear what had happened, and with the way it was worded, it was more implied that the removal of any SAM based mods was on you, Vector. It wasn't exactly stated directly, however the removal of the mods was not originally attributed to LadyM's decision. I'm really sorry for assuming anything. I repeat, while things were later clarified a bit, the original statements didn't make it clear that it was LadyM's doing, not yours. So by connecting the ill-placed dots, it could've been easily assumed that you were the one that made her remove the mods. And as such, I was bothered by the decision, which I assumed was yours... For all anybody knows too, this could have been a result of playing telephone between three people. I swear, had I known though what the real deal was, I wouldn't have had any trouble here! I do think that you should have direct control of your mod here on your own site.

Now I get to look like a total ass over everything not being entirely clear. I concede defeat.

Again, I'm incredibly sorry, Vector. I honestly am... I feel like such an idiot.

Edited by RocketLombax

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